Dec 2007
SAC Meeting December- Trainee Rep report
17/12/07 21:05 Filed in: INFO from
Trainee Reps
1. Consortia:
The basic principle of grouping training centres in consortia was strongly supported with a requirement to train in at least 2 centres being felt to be essential. The ideal program would be to spend three years in a centre but definitely no more than four before a move to another centre. No more than one house move during the training period should be anticipated.
It was acknowledged that the current consortia cannot continue as Scotland and Ireland are not under the auspices of PMETB in the same way as English training programmes now are. Those trainees already appointed on the understanding they will be rotating within consortia as they existed previously WILL be trained within those consortia and have a contractual right to expect this to happen (e.g. Scottish trainees rotating to Newcastle), however new appointments will not be made to these consortia.
The future configuration was discussed with particular reference to London, Belfast and Newcastle.
London: This was felt by some to have become over large and unwieldy, especially since the addition of Eastern deanery centres (Cambridge and Norwich). However, no concerns were expressed from within the London consortium and its management to date was felt to be exemplary. Problems with sub-specialty exposure were explained as a problem for division of the consortium. The consensus was that it would remain as it was for the time being.
Belfast: This has become isolated by the recent changes and concerns were felt that “mainland” trainees would not want to rotate to N Ireland. We felt this may be the case but that trainees desire to train in paediatric surgery may be such that they would be prepared to work there for a period of time. Belfast had suggested a non-reciprocal arrangement with a mainland centre for their trainees to rotate to. Another suggestion was to include Dublin on the PMETB list of approved OOPE centres and provide 2 centre training that way. It was noted that PMETB will approve EU based training automatically providing that the relevant “competent authority” provide evidence of training status for that post. These 2 avenues will be explored.
Newcastle: This is most likely to merge with Leeds in some way but the implications of this on the Leeds-Sheffield-Leicester- Nottingham consortium are unclear.
Through all the discussions we emphasised the trainees’ flexibility and willingness to move for their career but also their requests for clarity in advance of changes that have such huge implications on our personal lives. This was acknowledged and attempts will be made to clarify this in advance of advertising posts but there may be a long list of potential sites to rotate to on the job descriptions that will be reduced as the configurations become clearer.
2. Recruitment for 2008:
Existing appointments to run-through training would be honoured, this would mean that all ST3 posts for 2008 are already accounted for. In order to allow trainees to enter training at this level there will be an additional 10 “one-off” posts at ST3 next year. It was stressed that these represent a last chance for trainees at this level.
The exact location of these posts is unclear but the proposal was for 4 in London and 2 in each of the other consortia. Future opportunities in paediatric surgery may have to be significantly reduced depending on work-force planning estimates.
ST 3 and ST 4 posts will be available in Scotland in 2008, the personal specifications are available to view on-line at the MMC Scotland website:
http://www.mmc.scot.nhs.uk/documents/v5ST3PaediatricSurgery2008.pdf
These jobs are open to all to apply for, not just Scottish trainees. Although personal specs for England have not yet been released they are unlikely to be significantly different to Scotland and prospective applicants would be advised to look at these specifications and ensure they fit them.
All appointments will be at a local (Deanery) level. No new run-through appointments will be made at ST1 or 2.
It is not clear what will be happening to FY1/2 – whether they will also be uncoupled as recommended in the Tooke report, or not.
3. Intercollegiate Exam:
The question bank for the first part is now complete with 1500 questions, of which 200 will be drawn each time to compose the exam. These questions will continue to be refined. The pass rate is currently approximately 60% for each part of the exam; this is broadly in line with other surgical specialties.
4. Logbook:
The correct logbook to use for all trainees, as approved by the BAPS Education and Training committee is the one found at www.elogbook.org. Registering on the site is straight forward. The facilities offered by this logbook continue to improve.
5. PMETB Survey:
The repeat survey is now under way, new questions have been formulated to improve the quality of the survey. Trainees were asked to notify PMETB if they had not received an invitation to complete the survey.
6. Quality Assurance:
A QA report was presented to the meeting. This was based on information from the JCST website and completed by ST1 trainees in all surgical specialties. Specific Paediatric Surgery info was not available due to small numbers. The gist of the presentation was that trainees have very high expectations of their training programmes which are not always met, and may not be realistic. ST1 trainees felt that they were well supervised but did not get to theatre as often as they hoped. Data from ST2 and ST3 are now being collated.
The SAC felt that trainees should be involved in quality assurance to ensure that we get the best possible training.
The basic principle of grouping training centres in consortia was strongly supported with a requirement to train in at least 2 centres being felt to be essential. The ideal program would be to spend three years in a centre but definitely no more than four before a move to another centre. No more than one house move during the training period should be anticipated.
It was acknowledged that the current consortia cannot continue as Scotland and Ireland are not under the auspices of PMETB in the same way as English training programmes now are. Those trainees already appointed on the understanding they will be rotating within consortia as they existed previously WILL be trained within those consortia and have a contractual right to expect this to happen (e.g. Scottish trainees rotating to Newcastle), however new appointments will not be made to these consortia.
The future configuration was discussed with particular reference to London, Belfast and Newcastle.
London: This was felt by some to have become over large and unwieldy, especially since the addition of Eastern deanery centres (Cambridge and Norwich). However, no concerns were expressed from within the London consortium and its management to date was felt to be exemplary. Problems with sub-specialty exposure were explained as a problem for division of the consortium. The consensus was that it would remain as it was for the time being.
Belfast: This has become isolated by the recent changes and concerns were felt that “mainland” trainees would not want to rotate to N Ireland. We felt this may be the case but that trainees desire to train in paediatric surgery may be such that they would be prepared to work there for a period of time. Belfast had suggested a non-reciprocal arrangement with a mainland centre for their trainees to rotate to. Another suggestion was to include Dublin on the PMETB list of approved OOPE centres and provide 2 centre training that way. It was noted that PMETB will approve EU based training automatically providing that the relevant “competent authority” provide evidence of training status for that post. These 2 avenues will be explored.
Newcastle: This is most likely to merge with Leeds in some way but the implications of this on the Leeds-Sheffield-Leicester- Nottingham consortium are unclear.
Through all the discussions we emphasised the trainees’ flexibility and willingness to move for their career but also their requests for clarity in advance of changes that have such huge implications on our personal lives. This was acknowledged and attempts will be made to clarify this in advance of advertising posts but there may be a long list of potential sites to rotate to on the job descriptions that will be reduced as the configurations become clearer.
2. Recruitment for 2008:
Existing appointments to run-through training would be honoured, this would mean that all ST3 posts for 2008 are already accounted for. In order to allow trainees to enter training at this level there will be an additional 10 “one-off” posts at ST3 next year. It was stressed that these represent a last chance for trainees at this level.
The exact location of these posts is unclear but the proposal was for 4 in London and 2 in each of the other consortia. Future opportunities in paediatric surgery may have to be significantly reduced depending on work-force planning estimates.
ST 3 and ST 4 posts will be available in Scotland in 2008, the personal specifications are available to view on-line at the MMC Scotland website:
http://www.mmc.scot.nhs.uk/documents/v5ST3PaediatricSurgery2008.pdf
These jobs are open to all to apply for, not just Scottish trainees. Although personal specs for England have not yet been released they are unlikely to be significantly different to Scotland and prospective applicants would be advised to look at these specifications and ensure they fit them.
All appointments will be at a local (Deanery) level. No new run-through appointments will be made at ST1 or 2.
It is not clear what will be happening to FY1/2 – whether they will also be uncoupled as recommended in the Tooke report, or not.
3. Intercollegiate Exam:
The question bank for the first part is now complete with 1500 questions, of which 200 will be drawn each time to compose the exam. These questions will continue to be refined. The pass rate is currently approximately 60% for each part of the exam; this is broadly in line with other surgical specialties.
4. Logbook:
The correct logbook to use for all trainees, as approved by the BAPS Education and Training committee is the one found at www.elogbook.org. Registering on the site is straight forward. The facilities offered by this logbook continue to improve.
5. PMETB Survey:
The repeat survey is now under way, new questions have been formulated to improve the quality of the survey. Trainees were asked to notify PMETB if they had not received an invitation to complete the survey.
6. Quality Assurance:
A QA report was presented to the meeting. This was based on information from the JCST website and completed by ST1 trainees in all surgical specialties. Specific Paediatric Surgery info was not available due to small numbers. The gist of the presentation was that trainees have very high expectations of their training programmes which are not always met, and may not be realistic. ST1 trainees felt that they were well supervised but did not get to theatre as often as they hoped. Data from ST2 and ST3 are now being collated.
The SAC felt that trainees should be involved in quality assurance to ensure that we get the best possible training.
MMC update on the 2008 ST process
08/12/07 17:42 Filed in: TRAINING
Download the latest newsletter from MMC about the Specialty Training Recruitment 2008 process.
